File Summary for Gabriel Lay
Also known as "Gabe"
People Involved
- Amanda Owens - Posts vehicles online for us.
- Kurt Peterson - Senior Technical (mechanic).
- Kimber Kahre - Junior Technician (car detailer).
- Matthew Roberts - Senior Advisor (works with people to help them with getting a vehicle).
Summary of Events
Gabe contacted Amanda about a 2004 Volkswagen Touareg on or around April 27th 2021.
Amanda had him call Matthew Roberts. When Matthew and Gabe first spoke, Gabe asked Matthew about the condition of the vehicle. Matthew sent over pictures (the same pictures below which were the same images that Amanda posted). Matthew explained to Gabe that the issues with the car were cosmetic and that he should talk with the mechanic Kurt, because he wasn't near the vehicle and couldn't accurately convey what those cosmetic issues were. Matthew suggested that he call Kurt who was near the vehicle, and have him go to the vehicle and he could ask Kurt whatever questions he wanted to ask about the vehicle. Gabe then called Kurt and they spent at least 45 minutes talking about the condition of the vehicle. Kurt answered all questions that Gabe asked. Gabe then contacted Matthew and said that he would like for us to HOLD the vehicle until he could drive down and purchase it.
Matthew then prepared our standard hold agreement ( click here ) and sent this agreement to Gabe electronically. Gabe signed this agreement digitally and then sent the non refundable fee of $500.
Gabe arrived on Thursday 5/14/21, late in the afternoon to complete the transaction. When Gabe arrived, Kurt took him on a test drive. They came back and Gabe said he was going to "pass" because there were too many cosmetic issues. He agreed the vehicle was mechanically good, but wasn't happy with the cosmetic issues.
After Gabe left, Matthew called Gabe and offered to help him find a similar vehicle but with less cosmetic issues. Matthew explained to Gabe that he couldn't give him his non-refundable deposit back, because the contract stated clearly that it was NOT a REFUNDABLE transaction. Matthew explained however, that he could work something out on another vehicle, and was willing to do the work to find him a similar vehicle that had less cosmetic issues. At first Gabe seemed thankful for this offer, but shortly thereafter changed his mind and demanded his money back.
Gabe then started threatening us. He said if we didn't do what he wanted that he was going to file negative complaints to Google and yelp and file complaints with the FLHSMV and the licensing commission.
Amanda had him call Matthew Roberts. When Matthew and Gabe first spoke, Gabe asked Matthew about the condition of the vehicle. Matthew sent over pictures (the same pictures below which were the same images that Amanda posted). Matthew explained to Gabe that the issues with the car were cosmetic and that he should talk with the mechanic Kurt, because he wasn't near the vehicle and couldn't accurately convey what those cosmetic issues were. Matthew suggested that he call Kurt who was near the vehicle, and have him go to the vehicle and he could ask Kurt whatever questions he wanted to ask about the vehicle. Gabe then called Kurt and they spent at least 45 minutes talking about the condition of the vehicle. Kurt answered all questions that Gabe asked. Gabe then contacted Matthew and said that he would like for us to HOLD the vehicle until he could drive down and purchase it.
Matthew then prepared our standard hold agreement ( click here ) and sent this agreement to Gabe electronically. Gabe signed this agreement digitally and then sent the non refundable fee of $500.
Gabe arrived on Thursday 5/14/21, late in the afternoon to complete the transaction. When Gabe arrived, Kurt took him on a test drive. They came back and Gabe said he was going to "pass" because there were too many cosmetic issues. He agreed the vehicle was mechanically good, but wasn't happy with the cosmetic issues.
After Gabe left, Matthew called Gabe and offered to help him find a similar vehicle but with less cosmetic issues. Matthew explained to Gabe that he couldn't give him his non-refundable deposit back, because the contract stated clearly that it was NOT a REFUNDABLE transaction. Matthew explained however, that he could work something out on another vehicle, and was willing to do the work to find him a similar vehicle that had less cosmetic issues. At first Gabe seemed thankful for this offer, but shortly thereafter changed his mind and demanded his money back.
Gabe then started threatening us. He said if we didn't do what he wanted that he was going to file negative complaints to Google and yelp and file complaints with the FLHSMV and the licensing commission.
Complaint Specifics
- The We Help Foundation NEVER lied to Gabe - Gabe is assuming that because we didn't tell him the carpet had stains, or any other fact about the vehicle, that we lied to him. There are thousands of aspects to a vehicle that may or may not cause a person to like the vehicle. For this reason, we gave him plenty of time and availability with our mechanic to ask about the condition of this vehicle before committing to it.
- Gabe is downplaying the amount of time and information given to him about the condition of the vehicle....but in the next sentence he admits that he had long conversations and extensive questioning.
- Gabe says the vehicle is a disaster. To be clear. It's a 2004, 17 year old vehicle with 147k miles. It's condition is typical for a vehicle of this age and mileage.
- Gabe is saying he thinks the car was flooded. We have included a CarFax Report ( click here ) for you to review. As you can see the vehicle has a clean CarFax with NO history of it being in a flood or any other issues.
- Signing a contract in good faith? The contract in no way stated that if Gabe didn't like the vehicle he could have his money back. It stated that if he sent $500 we would remove it from all marketing efforts and give him the time he needed to make travel arrangements. If you read the contract, "In good faith"...we did exactly what the agreement said we were going to do.
Closing Summary
We understand the difficulty in trying to purchase a vehicle from a totally different city and state. We have sold many vehicles in this manner and until now, we have had no issues.
Why have a contract in the first place?
When selling a vehicle "Sight-UnSeen" we have to have an Agreement in place. We have learned over the years, that their is a strong likelihood that the images we provide do not convey enough information to the consumer to ensure that they are happy with moving forward. As human beings, we often purchase vehicles based on how we feel once we are inside the vehicle, driving it and getting a feel-for-it. This aspect of the purchase process is not possible for someone attempting to purchase from 6 hours away. At the same time, the person interested in the vehicle wants you to hold it, and give them the time to get their finances together and make travel arrangements and they don't want us to sell it to someone else, so they miss out on the opportunity to acquire it for themselves. If we hold the vehicle, without a non refundable deposit, then we take that opportunity from someone else. We require the non refundable deposit to ensure that the potential buyer understands that we are locking this vehicle down for them for a specific period of time, so that NO OTHER PERSON CAN take the purchase opportunity away from them.
The reasons why Gabe decided not purchase may be what he said, too many cosmetic issues. However, Gabe explained to Matthew in one of the conversations that he planned on fixing it up like he is actively doing with several other vehicles he owns. Perhaps, he already changed his mind about the purchase before he arrived. He was at our location for about 15 minutes and left. How do we know what his true reasons for not wanting this vehicle are? Nobody does? That is why we have a contract.
We've witnessed many scenarios where a buyer changes their mind, and we later find out it's because their friend or family member influenced them. A contract is a contract. Gabe could have asked Kurt any question he wanted. He did ask many of the important questions, like the condition of the engine, the transmission, the exhaust, etc. All which were fine. But, Gabe failed to ask Kurt about the condition of the carpet, the condition of the headliner or the condition of any of the other cosmetic issues he mentioned.
The $500 he paid was to hold the vehicle and keep others from buying it. The condition of the vehicle is NOT justifiable cause to give back the fee.
WHAT IS EXTORTION?
Extortion is the practice of obtaining money or some other favor through force or threats. Gabe is trying to extort our Foundation into giving him money that is NOT morally, ethically, OR contractually due him. He is acting like a bully. Give me what I want or else!
Why have a contract in the first place?
When selling a vehicle "Sight-UnSeen" we have to have an Agreement in place. We have learned over the years, that their is a strong likelihood that the images we provide do not convey enough information to the consumer to ensure that they are happy with moving forward. As human beings, we often purchase vehicles based on how we feel once we are inside the vehicle, driving it and getting a feel-for-it. This aspect of the purchase process is not possible for someone attempting to purchase from 6 hours away. At the same time, the person interested in the vehicle wants you to hold it, and give them the time to get their finances together and make travel arrangements and they don't want us to sell it to someone else, so they miss out on the opportunity to acquire it for themselves. If we hold the vehicle, without a non refundable deposit, then we take that opportunity from someone else. We require the non refundable deposit to ensure that the potential buyer understands that we are locking this vehicle down for them for a specific period of time, so that NO OTHER PERSON CAN take the purchase opportunity away from them.
The reasons why Gabe decided not purchase may be what he said, too many cosmetic issues. However, Gabe explained to Matthew in one of the conversations that he planned on fixing it up like he is actively doing with several other vehicles he owns. Perhaps, he already changed his mind about the purchase before he arrived. He was at our location for about 15 minutes and left. How do we know what his true reasons for not wanting this vehicle are? Nobody does? That is why we have a contract.
We've witnessed many scenarios where a buyer changes their mind, and we later find out it's because their friend or family member influenced them. A contract is a contract. Gabe could have asked Kurt any question he wanted. He did ask many of the important questions, like the condition of the engine, the transmission, the exhaust, etc. All which were fine. But, Gabe failed to ask Kurt about the condition of the carpet, the condition of the headliner or the condition of any of the other cosmetic issues he mentioned.
The $500 he paid was to hold the vehicle and keep others from buying it. The condition of the vehicle is NOT justifiable cause to give back the fee.
WHAT IS EXTORTION?
Extortion is the practice of obtaining money or some other favor through force or threats. Gabe is trying to extort our Foundation into giving him money that is NOT morally, ethically, OR contractually due him. He is acting like a bully. Give me what I want or else!
Documentation
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